Is It Time To Launch A Video Podcast?
Jocelyn Montemarano shares why business owners want to grow their thought leadership through video podcast content to create authority and visibility.
In this episode, Jocelyn and I talked about...
- why video podcasting is the most effective choice
- what to talk about to best showcase our expertise through video
- how to make creating video content sustainable
- Jocelyn's top tips for creating your 1st video podcast
- what's at risk for our business when we don't use videos
- how to decide between short vs long episodes
- ideas to repurpose the videos for your content creation
...and much, much more
Things mentioned in this episode
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Get my Free Launch Copy Map: https://www.saravartanian.com/launch-map
- Get on the waitlist for Jocelyn's program, Remarkable Show.
- Peek at her Profitable Content Ecosystem
- Listen to Jocelyn's series on why video is the most effective way to get recurring leads in your business
Learn More About Jocelyn Montemarano
Jocelyn Montemarano is the founder and award winning content strategist of Connect Through Content.
Throughout 8 years of her career working as a content marketing strategist at an agency, in corporate, and for small businesses, Jocelyn came across dozens of experts who were making a tangible impact in people’s lives.
At first, she struggled feeling like her career as a content marketer wasn't making an impact compared to her clients who had life-changing expertise.
But, she realized that although they had a powerful solution to share, they rarely knew how to effectively get their message into the world connect with the people who needed them most.
That's when it all clicked for her — she was an important part of elevating their message to ensure it got to the right people who needed them most.
Jocelyn currently supports expert business owners to elevate their messaging and leverage thought-leadership video or podcast content to create the authority, visibility, and connections they need to scale to their next level of business growth and impact with ease.
Connect with her on IG: https://www.instagram.com/connectthroughcontent/
Check Jocelyn's Website: https://connectthroughcontent.com/
Read the full transcript so you don't miss a thing
Jocelyn: So case studies and things like that really help with the sales and pushing that kind of final thing, because everybody's biggest objection is, it's not gonna work for me, like, they're gonna be the one exception to the rule, right? It could be like, we have 100% Client Success, every single client has gotten this result. And they'll be like, but it's not going to work for me. And I'm sure everybody listening I know I have has felt that as well. That's natural. We're human. So those case studies, really actually on a neuroscience level. I've been like looking into this a little bit more, really helped people in their subconscious understand that this can actually work for me because they are seeing it. So that phrase, like see to believe is really, really true, literally. According to neuroscience.
You're listening to the launch playbook podcast, the weekly podcast for service based business owners to discover the starts, stops and tools to transformation that go into launching their online offers. I'm your host, Sara Vartanian. And if you want to launch your ideas into the world faster, with more success and less burnout. Well, friend, consider this show your secret playbook to get you there.
Sara: Today, I'm chatting with Jocelyn Munch Murano, the founder and award winning content strategist of connect through content. Jocelyn supports expert business owners to elevate their messaging, and leverage their thought leadership through video podcasts content to create the authority, visibility and connections they need to scale to their next level business growth and impact with ease.
Welcome, Jocelyn.
Jocelyn: Hi Sara, thanks for having me.
Sara: Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited to have you on. I know, we were talking in the green room where I was saying, I feel so lucky as a podcast host. Because every time I chat with someone, it's like, like we said, like a mini workshop right in my own private workshop, which I happen to open up and let other people listen to. It's such a lovely privilege. And I cannot wait to talk to you about this topic today.
Jocelyn: Yeah, I'm excited to share because you you shared with me, you know, prior to this, that you were really excited about kind of what I was putting out there and thinking about this for yourself as well. So it'll be fun.
Sara: For sure. And yeah, it's just insane. I'm thinking around adding video to this podcast, I think that'd be so wonderful. We're recording anyways, like, why not do it? And so I'm sure she's gonna help me figure out answer today. And hopefully you listeners as well, if you're thinking around creating video content for your business, which I think we probably all are at this point. This should help you too. So we'll dive in. Okay, so Jocelyn, we hear over and over again, of course it video content is where it's at. But I'd love for you to share with us like why you decided to focus on video content with your clients.
Jocelyn: Yeah, we all have to show up some way, right? And it's really about figuring out what is enjoyable, easy and also effective. And when we can, you know, show up in a way that hits on all three of those things. That's where I think like the winning formula comes in. And when I started working with clients, and even throughout my career, I was just getting really frustrated with how difficult it was and felt to so many experts to get their message out there. It was like, everybody was asking me like all these questions about like, different algorithms, what platform they should be on? Like, should I be on LinkedIn? Should I be on Instagram? Should I post like this? Do I need these hashtags? Is it 12 hashtags or 38? Hashtags, like all of these questions that were just like, plaguing them. And meanwhile, these people are such incredible experts, right, like their therapists, their dieticians, their, you know, launch strategists, like all these people who have great knowledge, great approaches to the work that they do, but they just like, can't figure out how to get it out there. And so I was getting just like really frustrated like that. So in my work, what I kind of have set for myself now is like, How can I answer the question of, you know, how can we make content that's more effective, that way, it's easier for people to get their message out there, it's more enjoyable, it's more effective, and they're just able to, you know, do things simply and be able to show up, help people and then really focus on their zone of genius and not get caught up in things like, is it 12 hashed, except 38. hashtags?
So when I was really diving into that question, and like, okay, you know, what makes really effective content, it comes down to like three things, content that inspires action. So obviously, that gets people oftentimes to convert into a paying customer. Sometimes if you know you're another type of expert, like a thought leader for a nonprofit that might look a little different for you but inspire action in some way, oftentimes purchasing we also want that content to reach more people. And then we want it to be sustainable, right? So we want to make sure that again, the way we're choosing to show up is something that we can realistically see ourselves doing for the next 10 years, because we're building a company on the back of this, not just something for the next three years. So that kind of led me down the route towards video podcasting, because when I was looking at all three of those things, like how can we make it easy and sustainable? How can we make it effective? And how can we make sure it actually reaches more people? Video, podcasting was really the answer because of its versatility and its ability to be leveraged, and the ease of which it can be created. When done, you know, without all of the, you know, crazy, you should do this, or you should do that
type of thing.
Sara: So Jocelyn, oh, my gosh, there's so much I want to unpack with what you just said, too. First, I definitely no, I'm not the only one like listening here right now to you thinking like, oh my gosh, yes. Like all the hashtags? Like, where should they show up? And I really appreciate that you brought it back to you. Actually, it sounds to me, like, let's talk about the content first, as opposed to even like necessarily where it's going, like, let's talk about the vehicle of what you're creating. And I'll be honest, like, you know, when I think about creating video content, it feels a bit exhausting. But then, so does all that other stuff that you're talking about. Yeah. Algorithms, hashtags, decision making. So do we have to do a lot of editing when it comes to do a podcast? Will it take forever? Is there a lot of takes we have to do you? How can we make it be more sustainable? Because you brought that up? And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that for us?
Jocelyn: Yeah, this is a great question. One I'm exploring Personally, myself, as I'm actually moving through the process of creating my own video podcast, and I don't have like a team of people, you know, that I could just hand this off to. So you know, I'm really looking into that. And I think one thing that I'll kind of lead with first, and then I'll get into some more nitty nitty gritties here, but the thing I've been really asking myself is kind of like, How can I reframe this, like time conundrum? Because I feel like in the online entrepreneurial world, there's a lot of talk about, you know, this saves time, this is the quickest way, you know, this is the fastest, like, all of these things, right? And it can like, almost put pressure on ourselves to, like, do things as quickly as possible. And like, that's the end goal. And it's not. And I'm like, trying to remind myself and like, rethink how I approach that. And I'm like, well, would I care how long it took, if I enjoyed it start to finish. Because I can tell you right now, like creating one of the trendy reels to me might take a lot quicker than sitting down and doing a video podcast episode.
But for me, it's torture for the whole, you know, 40 minutes that I'm trying to do that? Oh my gosh. Yeah, yes, real thing, like, and so it's like, okay, that could be so much quicker. But at the end of the day, I'm not even enjoying that, maybe I'll get to a point where it is cool. But right now, that's not even enjoyable. And then again, I'm thinking to myself, that doesn't even feel like to me where I'm able to, like best bring my value and put that forward and share in the way I want to share. So I've been trying just to really reframe my time and be like, if I felt really proud of the work I was creating, if I felt really excited by how I was showing up, and the work I was doing, would that change how I approached marketing and showing up and it has, because I was kind of going down this route of like, thinking I shouldn't start a video podcast until, you know, I can have a team member that can really like do a lot for me and take that off my plate. So I was like, I'm gonna follow kind of this advice of, you know, focus on like Instagram, because it's easy to get started. And I just kept running into roadblocks of like, I hate sitting down and creating my Instagram content from scratch, because I really like thinking and like, longer term longer format that that flows better for me. So I like starting there. So I know that that didn't quite answer your question. But it's a good place to start as like a reflection. And then I would say two additional things. I think a lot of people get caught up in what a video quote unquote, should be and should look like, right?
And I think a lot of people start with, okay, I need to have like an editor to do all these fancy editing things, and I need all this equipment and maybe even feeling like, you know, I need to go to a studio and like set up all these ladings and like hire a videographer and like have this like full blown production. And that obviously can make it feel like a whole lot more work, you know, a whole lot more energy to get that going. And that's not really needed. A again, bringing up what you just mentioned, it's just about the content and creating really great content, you don't need all this crazy editing that you might see on a lot of like Top YouTubers channels who have like all these different graphics popping up and everything like
Sara: My kids watch. Yeah, I'm like, oh, it's it's happening.
Jocelyn: Because you know, at the end of the day, what matters is what you're saying. And then how you're delivering it through, you know, your voice and your body language, anything on top of that any like animations that you're able to add any graphics that you're able to add down the road are going to help elevate what is already working, but it's not going to overcome bad content. So I don't even recommend that for people when you know, we're talking, I'm working with them, we're talking about, you know, their first batch of content, their first six months of content, you know, I'm not even going there with them. Because I'm like, just focus on creating the content that actually says what it needs to say, and delivers what it needs to say. And when you start building up proof of concept, you can layer in kind of like any bells and whistles that you would like to based on, you know what you're able to do either budget or what's exciting to you, and you're like, Oh, I'm seeing these things, and I want to explore that, then sure, go for it. But don't put that pressure, you know, to start there and to start with all of that.
Sara: Stood out to me what you were just saying was like this permission to, I feel like it's almost like evolved. It's like evolving your expectations and what is sustainable for you as you go. Because I think he's like, you know, the deeper you go into it sounds like this, certain things will become easier. So now you can layer on the other piece as you're ready to, as opposed to waiting until we have all like, let's call it like the air quoting here. But like the perfect, right, like the perfect editor, the all like all the pop ups, all that stuff. Yes. And something else that like struck me as you were talking was around this, like sustainability thing was that, you know, we're talking about reels, which I agree, I did take me a long time to do them as well. I know that they can bring us a lot of views and things like that. But when I think about sustainable content, it's not something at least thus far. It's not like getting that like beautiful SEO, longtail juice and search engine power, maybe like a video with like a longer cord video content that would get so then that doesn't feel a sustainable for our business either. Because I think that stainability It's not only like, what can you do all the time, but like, what it's gonna like, last through time, right? What's gonna keep being relevant? Through whatever other thing, yes, social media brings our way. Right? like?
Jocelyn: Yeah, I'm really glad you brought this up. Because there, there's a really important key takeaway here. And so my background is in magazine journalism. And my specialty, when I was studying this, my focus area in school was digital innovation, because at the time, the magazine industry was like, print is dying, everything's moving online, and what is happening. And so the way we were taught to kind of approach journalism was through this lens of First there are content principles of what makes a good story, what hooks the reader in what you know, you need to communicate, right? Those are all of these, like timeless principles that work in any channel, any format, all of that. And then you can layer in these different things that can help reach more people or can help tell a more engaging story. But you have to lead with the timeless principles that are going to be really effective.
And that's, again, why I really love that video podcasting format, because it puts a lot more emphasis on that, let's give you the space to share your expertise. without restrictions of 200 characters or a 62nd time limit, let's actually give you the space to think through, you know what you want to say how you want to say it, what's important for the audience to know. And then you can take that content that's already done. So thought out really nice, like hits on everything you wanted it to hit on. And you can take you know, an episode and create 10 reels from it. Or even more, you know, like your as many as your little heart desires. But it makes it a lot easier because you're focused on creating, you know, this one piece with really well thought out ideas. And then you're saying, Okay, there's an opportunity for me to leverage this video piece in a different way by breaking it up into reels in a different way by creating graphic carousels based on this content in a different way by live streaming it and in addition to recording it for distribution later. There are all those different kinds of levers that you can pull. So yeah, I mean, that's that's what I think is like, a really key thing for people to understand is really leading with that high quality content that demonstrates your expertise and what you're really wanting to share with your audience what they need to hear And then following with all the different levers you can pull to get more out of it.
Sara: I love that idea of the different levers and like all the different ways you can repurpose, like you mentioned like, like the quotes cemetery, we can use that in all sorts of platforms, right and like the the clips, and I have to say to like, something I didn't expect when I came into podcasting, in general was to realize you're right, like, it's creating a body of work, right, and I go back, especially through my pot, like solo episodes and things like that. I have seen like an evolution in my own thinking by talking out loud, and how often I've actually gone back to those episodes when I have to do social media content, or I'm like, I don't want to write this week. Okay, I'm gonna go back through one of my like transcripts and see what I can talk about, even like podcasts pitches, and stuff in my, in my programs, and with my clients, like I find I've gone back to that core content so much. And it's then as I've also evolved with this, and, you know, and grown, that I've become more strategic about what I do, then Craig going forward, it's like, okay, what were some gaps I need to fill, what can I talk about like, that I could actually then leverage further and I although I haven't with video, I so see that just with like this podcast content around like my authority and expertise and the things that I don't even realize, I know until I talk about that. So I can just I can so envision this magic of adding this layer of video to it. And what that could do for us.
Jocelyn: Yeah, I love that you just mentioned body of work, because that's a concept that I think is like a higher level of understanding of what your content can really do for you. And it is an important piece too. Because when you are an expert entrepreneur, you have this expertise, it's really important that also your expertise doesn't just end there. Like it's not like, oh, I created my, my program or my service and great now I just need to market it, you are always kind of looking for how can I make it better what new things are coming up that, you know, we might need to pivot around or adjust based on what's happening in our industry, and through your content, you can begin exploring that. So that's a really fun way to marry like your messaging and what you're sharing with the world. And then actually how you're serving your people. So it's a really like fun inter connection. So I love that you brought that up. And and you think about it as like your body of work.
Sara: Thank you. And it's so it's so true that the more we're in business, more recruiting, the more we have to chat about it to Sharon, so many other ways they've worked backwards to that content. And maybe some listeners will find this interesting too is like we're working with either in a group program or a course or launch or even if you're one to one, like we're doing repeatable things probably over and over again to people and there's that's our IP, there's our intellectual property stuff that we're doing. And that is welcome backwards math into creating content, right. So I know for sure, like, when I you know, kept reading the same kind of emails over and over again, I ended up making templates are part of my group program, and they're an offer. But now backwards, I can go and talk about Well, here's how to write this type of thing, this welcome sequence, or here's how to write a reengagement sequence. Or here's the five sequences that you need in every single launch, because I have lived and done that. So over and over again. And in the end, it's me just further showing people, here's what I do, and it's not hidden behind that. The sale, right? Like it's not hidden, I don't have to hide the fact that I know all these things are in you as listener, you don't have to hide that you know, all these things, because so often they're buried within, like our delivery, when actually the world also needs to hear that we know how to do them that we have an idea that we're going to guide them through something.
Jocelyn: Yeah. And to that point, too, it's part of what makes content effective, like I mentioned, is inspiring action. And one of the things that is needed for buyers to really feel empowered to take that action. And that, you know, they're excited to take that action is alignment. So if you aren't sharing your unique method and your unique approach, they can't align with what you are doing and how you are doing it. Because they don't they don't know it. Right. So I think content is really important for any type of business that has an expert kind of at the forefront for that reason. Because it's not just you're not just selling launch copy, you're selling it in a specific way in which you approach it that is going to be very different than somebody else. So what our responsibility is, as marketers and as experts is to help people understand who our products and services are best for. So they can make an empowered choice of Yes, you are the right choice for me, or no, you're not the right choice for me. And that's okay too. And that's an important part of our content is making sure that some people are realizing, Oh, this isn't for me and removing themselves from either following us or thinking that this is the next investment that they're going to make or things like that. So it is super important to Yeah, be able to just put yourself out there and explain your approach to things and your perspective so they can align with that.
Sara: Such an important point. And I want to add on to that too. For listeners that we've talked about on the podcast is around and sharing your framework and the way you do things and how, like the truth is, you know, we're not we're not alone in our industries, most likely. And so the way we stand out from other folks is sharing the way we do things as you're talking about Jocelyn, as we've talked about, on the podcast, a little bit frameworks and stuff. And I know when I go to write for clients, one on one as a launch copywriter, I'm always wanting to know, like, tell me about how you do this, like, what is your pathway, what is the steps that you go through, because that's how we can highlight why you and you can call them the people who really love the way you deliver. And so it helps you stand out right to get from other folks. But also, I want to say, as a converter, that the more content you're creating, when you actually go to hire someone and invest in someone like a launch copywriter, or other people who are writing in your business, it could be a VA to social media, the more you have a work that they can go and listen to and watch, the more likely they're going to create content that actually sounds like you. Because I know that's always a question like, how are you going to write so it sounds like me? Well, I require, you know, we all require you to have done some. Because, you know, if you if you haven't created and start and sort of talking yourself through your brand and showing up as your brand and what you talk about, it's really hard for us, you know, for us, I can say writers, creative people who are doing this content to go in a federally step into your voice. So the more that you're sharing your voice and your expertise, and then showing up, the more nuances and things that we can pull into your copy. And I love with this video too, because there's so much power in watching someone's like expressions and the way they talk and what's making them nod their head or smile, like there's all these little subtleties that would then make coffee so much more powerful and like conscious, much more powerful, because you would recognize it and see that
Jocelyn: Yeah. So I'm gonna share a story here if that's okay, definitely, one of the biggest mistakes that I made as a content marketer was working with clients and doing all of their content for them, meaning I actually scripted out their video content for them. And then they could go record it. Huge mistake, I will never do that again. And I will never recommend that anybody has anybody else write their scripts for them ever again. Because what I realized was just how lost and like, as it doesn't matter how good, journalistically, like interviewing or picking up on things from somebody, but when you outsource that you're really losing your voice. So whether you are outsourcing, literally outsourcing your video scripts, or you're simply just not showing up, you are losing your voice in one way or another. And you're losing that opportunity to really put your perspective and your stamp on things. So it's super important. And then when you prioritize that, and you have that, everything else becomes so much more effective. Like Sarah said, like your copy your ads, everything, because it's coming from you, and your core beliefs, your experiences, all of those things that actually make you the expert. So if you don't take advantage of the opportunity to put content out there, as an expert, you're really losing out on the potential you have. Because you're just not sharing your message with the world. And you're putting your team in a position where we're not gonna be able to be as successful as possible, because we're dictating to you kind of where things should go rather than you leading us.
Sara: Yeah, oh, my gosh, I'm like, I very much relate to that. And I also just to like the beginning of my journey into content and writing and things like that had something similar, like, I would like to script out too much. And now I don't work with people one on one who don't have content created in some way or the other, because in the end, it's just like, I'm running in my voice, right? Like, it doesn't matter how many questions I ask and identify, you know, do you drink Starbucks? Or do you use a laptop, it does really matter, like those little things, unless I can hear their voice and what they're talking about, or even if it's through, it could be through blogging to and things like that. But, you know, I love the podcasts, I love the video so much more. But if I don't have that, I don't take them on one on one. Because there's nothing for me to go dive through. Right? Because I just know, I'm not really gonna do them justice, especially at like this point, my one to one work is like in the five figure range for like a lunch package for they're gonna invest in there. I want it to really be what it should be. So otherwise, if they're not quite ready for that, then maybe it's better to go like someone who's more of a junior copywriter and starting at, they just need something written and they can't do themselves. But I know, like, integrity, I don't want to take that on because I know what it needs to be right. And just the same thing.
Jocelyn: Yeah, yeah, it's really good to hear that because, you know, it can be easy to fall into that trap of like, outsource everything, but you need to lead. You need to ensure solutions and you need to lead your message, I think, in my opinion.
Sara: So speaking about content and creating it. Can you tell us a few ideas and what we could start talking about because I probably am thinking our listeners are saying okay, I hear you Jocelyn there. Wow, you're talking about, you know, showing up, sharing our thoughts, thought leadership or expertise. But like, what does that even mean? So are there a few general categories that we could start with?
Jocelyn: Yeah. So when it comes to like show content, I think specifically for shows, either video podcast or audio podcast show, there's a little more opportunity. And I'll explain why in a minute. But there's kind of like these two overarching categories of a show. On one hand, you have expertise, content, these are things that are directly related to like your current offers. So those are breaking down your methodology a bit more teaching a little bit so that people understand the way you approach things, perspective base pieces, where you're sharing, like your unique experience or perspective on a specific issue or topic related to your industry, case studies, belief based content, where you're either breaking down some of these old beliefs that don't support them, or building up new beliefs that they need to have in order to work with you. That type of content. And then there's also exploration content, which is a really unique thing in more of the show type of worlds, because shows are built around a premise. So it's not just oh, I'm creating based on these topics I'm creating on a premise.
So that exploratory content really allows you to position yourself as a thought leader and start exploring things, yes, related to what you do. But it might just be a little bit different. And that can just be a really fun piece. So for example, I obviously do video podcasting. But the premise of my work is like, really, how can we move people to take action? Right? Like, what does it take to do that in a way that is effective for us as entrepreneurs, and also empowered for the buyers, you know, without minute, deleting them into buying, always making sure that they're just as excited to take that action? And so like, one of the things that I might explore in one of those types of thought leadership pieces would be inspiration, how do we find content ideas that are really valuable, and are things that our audience wants to hear and need to be explored, because they haven't been done at times on a podcast. So I might bring in some different type of people to help me explore that topic, and just kind of have this open mindset of like, Hey, I don't have a formula for inspiration, I have a couple of tips. But like, I don't have like the scientific formula for it. But I'm gonna bring together a bunch of experts who are really good at it, or even people who might not be experts, but they have really great processes and experiences with staying inspired themselves in order to publish content like this. So expertise and exploration content, I think go hand in hand, because it shows that expertise, content really shows, okay, here's the problem in our industry. And we're working towards this future vision. And here's what I do that currently helps that and then that exploration content, helps continue to position you as a thought leader by sharing this is my mission. And I'm going to continue to explore this in many different ways. And it can support the evolution of your business, because you're not just talking about your one offer, all the time you are talking about this bigger vision that you want to bring people on.
Sara: I like that you've run up to that bigger vision. And because I think that stands that should our offers and the things that you're launching the things that we're putting out there change, that bigger vision is probably going to remain similar. It might evolve and expand. But we're like, we're not always like totally scrapping it, right? We're just shifting the offers as we become more in tune with our audience or what is working for us. So but that other piece lives still. So speaking of that, I know you've talked about it, as we've gone through a little bit, but how can creating this video content help actually lead to more sales?
Jocelyn: Yeah. So that's the fun part, right? Because again, the question here is like, how do we inspire action in people? So really, the purpose of content in general, I think a lot of people initially just think about it in terms of like, oh, I need to get in front of more people. I know, like for reals. That's really what where the mentality is right now. It's like, oh, reels allows me to get in front of 1000s of people and my other posts get in front of hundreds of people. So, you know, I need to be doing reels because it reaches more people. But really, what we want our content to do is to empower our prospects. We want to give them the insight that they need to make an informed decision. We want to make sure that they have that, that knowledge and understanding that makes them say, oh, yeah, I'm really excited to work with Sarah. I understand how she approaches this. I really like her process. She has a unique vision that she's working towards, that really aligns with me and my core values and the direction I want to see the industry go, and I'm excited to work with her. So that often includes like three kind of topics that help kind of actually move people to buy So the first which we talked about a little bit already is, you have to make sure that they are aligned with your approach. So when you're creating content, that approach based content, sharing how you approach different things, sharing how you think about different things is really important. Because that's going to tell somebody yes, that that feels aligned for me, I feel on the same page, or, nope, I would never approach it like that. That's not my jam, you know. And again, that's totally fine. You want people to opt out of some of that. The next thing once somebody is aligned, and they're like, Okay, I do like the work Sarah does. I really like how she approaches launch copy, right? The next thing that's going to come up for them is all of those like beliefs and objections, right, it's like, oh, it's not going to work for me, I'm not ready for a launch copywriter yet. Like, uh, you know, I didn't have a good launch last time. So I shouldn't invest in a copywriter for my next launch. And you know, like, all of those things that come up, that kind of like, make them a little bit fearful to take that next step. So creating content for that objections, or those beliefs that, you know, might be kind of blocking them from taking that next step. And then finally, they need to envision themselves being able to get the results that you are ultimately promising. So case studies and things like that really help with the sales and pushing that kind of final thing, because everybody's biggest objection is, it's not going to work for me, like they're gonna be the one exception to the rule, right? It could be like, we have 100% Client Success, every single client has gotten this result, and they'll be like, but it's not gonna work for me. And I'm sure everybody listening I know I have has felt that as well. That's natural, we're human. So those case studies, really actually on a neuroscience level, I've been like looking into this a little bit more, really helped people in their subconscious understand that this can actually work for me because they are seeing it. So that phrase, like see, to believe is really, really true, literally, according to neuroscience, so having plenty of case studies and examples of what's possible, so that they can really see themselves having success with it is really important. But that's really like, how you can use your video content to support your sales is, you know, creating all that content that helps move them through the journey. And then of course, reaching more people through your video through SEO and being able to repurpose it on social and things like that. So ultimately, when you have your, your content, working and achieving these different things, then you can reach more people.
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Sara: Okay, Jocelyn, so I knew that I was gonna be excited about video content, what you're talking about. And that's powerful. But what you just said, I just like, I got goosebumps, because we're talking about how your content can feed into all the other things that you have to create and how you can repurpose it. And so one of the sequences I write every time I do a launch and most of ordering launches is the open cart sequence, right? So it's like the day you say, Okay, this is a thing you can open it, it's open today. Maybe it's five days and you send all these emails and as you're talking exactly, it's like how I do what I do. It's a shifting of belief. It's the objection busting in question asking it's the like social proof use case testimonials like future visioning. Those are all those emails. So like, if you're creating this video, oh my gosh, you would be so much easier to write those emails. And those the ones that people like sticking to my DMs are like, What am I supposed to say in this email? Right, like you are able to hire me to do it and everything. Those are always the things that I feel like in Facebook groups, I see people talk about like, what am I supposed to say in those and that's exactly what you covered. And so how beautifully that aligns even more than I thought it would tell you it's so exciting.
Jocelyn: Yeah, it's really cool when that like trying to follows through everything, but it is because it's rooted in science. We might not actually know the science as well as we could, but it is rooted in science. So it's kind of the The Art and Science of copy the art and science of content, it's just really important to understand where your buyers are, you know, yeah. So that you can help them move through these things,
Sara: For sure. And then like the wrote the neuroscience piece too, because that is something like as you know, as you're in content as well. So it's something that comes up it's like the, the psychology behind things. And then how do we employ that in ways that are ethical and integrity and all that such stuff. And I know, that's not what this episode is about. But I know you mentioned as well, but doing things that are really like in integrity with yourself, and not false and yucky. But we can still use those techniques, because that's just what people need to use, and to actually make a decision to make and we want to help folks make a decision, right? Whether it's with us or not.
Jocelyn: Yeah, exactly. So I was just gonna say that, the work that we do is, is that giving people the choice, but they have that insight, and knowledge and understanding that they need to make that choice for themselves versus trying to get as many people as possible to make the choice that we want them to me. So I think that's that's kind of the distinguishing factor there with using psychology, neuroscience kind of those things for good and ethically, as possible, versus, you know, using them like to increase our conversion rates alone without thinking about.
Sara: The cost of the humans who are going to be that right and what they actually need. Exactly. I love it. Yeah, I knew you'd be we'd be on the same page with us, of course. So let's talk about a few of the technical thing, because I'm sure listeners are saying, Okay, I'm hearing about the type of content, I see why this is important. But like, let's face the fact some of the probably hesitations or questions are around like, equipment, and how long it's going to take me or do we have to do lots of edits? Let's talk about that.
Jocelyn: A lot of people, like I would say, nine out of 10 of my discovery calls, people are bringing up equipment in some way. And the tech of like, how do you actually like, get it up online? Like, you know, what do I do there. And it's, it's funny, because I'm like, that actually has such a little impact on things like the tech is so much easier than people make it out to be, like equipment wise, you can start with the webcam that is built into your computer, you can start with recording on Zoom, which is free. And you can start with your microphone being the headphones that come with your iPhone, like that, that is where you can start, you can always up level that with a webcam, you know, a more professional microphone, maybe some lighting so that it's nice and bright and well lit, things like that. But you do not need to have like this crazy professional camera setup, I would say like very few people actually ever need that. And you don't need that until you have mastered the art of just creating effective content. And you have the evidence to show that that is a worthwhile investment for you. And then you'll be at a place where you know, you can bring in a video editor and create much more polished videos and get that Marie Forleo style vibe for your show as well. But that comes way after you have to first focus on how do I communicate effectively. And then you can worry about those things. So don't get too stressed about the tech because it really is a lot simpler. And I know like when I first started creating videos for myself, I had come out of working at agencies working corporate working for small midsize companies, where we did have a video person who came and there was a sound person that came and we did like actually structured video shoots. So then when I went to record my own videos, I was just like feeling like such an impostor. Because I was like, I knew everything I should be doing. I was like, I know the camera I need I know, the sound checks, I need to do like all of this stuff. But I couldn't execute it myself. And it was like so frustrating. And it actually like created a huge block for me. And then I was like, why am I putting the expectation on like myself, that's gonna put the expectation on my clients, when again, it really doesn't need to be that we can create effective video just using the tools that we're all so familiar with now through a COVID world stuff. Absolutely. You know how to use Zoom. That's all you need. Again, there are things you can up level that with but really, that's all you need.
Sara: So I know I'll speak for myself in this I know at this podcast that I can so I do have an editor but even you know that we can go and cut out a question in video. Let's say we don't have an editor and if we do like do we should we should keep in the Bumbles and the bombs should we like just do really basic editing or we just like cut that little spot? And like just kind of splice it together. Any thoughts on that?
Jocelyn: Yeah. I mean, so obviously, if you have budget for an editor, you can go on and cut it, you know, they can go in and cut it the same way that you would cut your podcast content and be like, okay, there was a pause there as the guest was thinking about what to say next we can cut that or if you don't Hold. Or if you just want to make it a more natural engaging show, you can just leave it in, like we put all of these expectations on ourselves. And it's like for what, again, going back, if we're just focused on effective content, and you are, again, communicating something that is really high quality, really thought through really engaging, doesn't matter if there's a pause, it doesn't matter if you say like, it doesn't matter if you need to look down at, you know, notes, your outline that you have, or take a minute, take a drink, like people are gonna keep watching because you're creating high quality content that they want to stay engaged with. So all of these other things. Sure, could they help? Because they speed things up? And, you know, keep people a little bit more engaged? Yes, but somebody is going to stay engaged because of the content not because you cut out 20 extra seconds of throughout the episode.
Sara: That's so helpful. Think about and, and you're so right when you mentioned like the Marie Forleo, like Marie TV, because I really, I know, when I started, my business was like, Oh, that was the gold standard. And we put so much pressure on ourselves to be so much further ahead or in a different space than we are. And I know it happens a lot and lunches, like a lot of people who will come to me have like, follow Amy Porterfield launches and things like that. And of course, like she's got a huge team. I was affiliate for her program a couple of years ago. And I saw even behind the scenes of that machine, and it's amazing. And they're, they're amazing. And they're doing great work. But it's it's a big team, with lots of full time people behind it. And we know we're not at that space right now, in our business, if it's just us, or just us in a VA with a couple hours. The fact that we're trying to recreate that whole thing is an impossible standard. It's not where any of them started from either you can go back and see Murray's original videos and Amy Porterfield original videos online, and they're pretty much just like sitting in front of a wall or their living room. Right?
Jocelyn: Everybody go look at Amy Porterfield like old YouTube, because they will literally make you be like, Oh, she really did start where I started.
Sara: Yeah, like the room was like, did their videos are dark?
Jocelyn: Just got like into 1000s 10 Like baying? For sure. i The Marie Forleo example is just so good. Because that was like the expectation I put on myself. I was like, I know how to make a video like that. So like, that's what I need to do. And, yeah, these people have huge teams. And it's okay not to have huge teams. And there's also people who are super successful at their level of multiple, seven figures, eight figure businesses that could pay all the people they want. And they still keep it just as simple as recording in their office with headphones and their webcam. And they just keep it like that because it's working. And they're like, I don't need to even do all of that extra stuff. And I would rather just keep it simple. So it's all mental games that we put ourselves through.
Sara: Oh my gosh, do we really, we really do do that ourselves. And I know, for myself, at least I can say that. The truth is most of the time, it's those little stumble. It's those like side laughs It's that like, it's yeah, it's the bumbler that, like, I don't know, let me start that again. Or, like, where's it going with that? That's where I actually end up connecting with people because that's like the humaneness where you're like, oh my gosh, like it really it's like, you're also human, you're like me, right? And you also almost like sometimes feel like oh, like your heart and kind of go out. I know, one of our past guests, Heather Sager talked about webinars, and she was saying how, if you fumble on the webinar, just make it part of the story. Like we all kind of cheer for the underdog in a way. So when someone is grieving, gain great content and has like a little blip where like, or, or even like, Hey, she's an underdog but like Jennifer Lawrence falling up the steps in the Oscars, right? We were all like, oh, my gosh, we think we loved her more for it. Because so we can, you know, I know, we're not all on our Oscar win here. But we can relate to the fact that, like, I do that too. And oh my gosh, like, I don't have to be polished or putting it out there. I can maybe do this too. And I like them.
Jocelyn: Yeah. And you know, what's really interesting too, is, again, most of the people listening to this podcast and the people I work with are experts. in some regard. You know, this isn't like a product based business where the main video is like, have a product and you have like five seconds to determine if that person is gonna continue watching it because it's a product we are human. And oftentimes in our work as experts, whatever we are delivering as our end product and solution for our customers is something where we likely are on video and engaging with them. So it is a human solution that we provide, whether that's in the form of a course or a group program that has coaching calls one on one work, we are literally interacting with them as a human. So having those mistakes in your video or you know, just showing up normally as if you were having a normal conversation with somebody that's going to do you so much more good because they're going to be Like, Oh, I see how she shows up, I see how they interact, I see how he handles himself in these types of moments like all of those things. And that's the human part. That's the human that they're actually going to be working with. Or that's a human that's leading, you know, the team that I'll be working with. But you get that realness and that is an important factor when somebody is choosing to invest in an expert, because it is ultimately coming from a human.
Sara: I liked that so much in an episode I was recording earlier today with Natalie brand photographer from picture notch she we were talking about how, like on Tinder and I haven't been on Tinder and and my little sister has we were talking about this on the episode, how like, they'll put up like a photo that when you meet them, it's not like them. And I feel like it's kind of like this with video, right? Who are they going to meet in that video you're producing? And who are they going to meet on the on the Zoom call with you, they can still like we want it to be the same.
Jocelyn: That's a really good example, I might have to like steal that. Because that is really such a great way to describe it. It's like you want to show up consistently across. So if you're the type of person who on your coaching calls has like, the messy bun and like kids running around in the background, maybe you don't do that for your recorded videos, because you want the sound to be good. But like maybe you're dressed more casually than Marie Forleo. Who's ordering Rent the Runway every time. Yeah, you know, so that realness is is really key. I love that analogy that you just shared.
Sara: I think about that with Jordan Gill, who we met, we met we met in the dandy perimeter Windows program. And what I love about Jordan is that she has she shows up you know, she's super smart is so such an expert, but we'll show up and like fun sweatshirts with her hair and ponytail or a ball. And that's who she is. And yeah, she's got some Polish videos where she's like, you know, more makeup and things. But most of the time, that's how she's showing up for her reels on her coaching calls. And I know like, that's when appeal I had was that I felt like Jordan was like, no, no, she values rest and downtime and things like that, and just being yourself. And that was something that I know, attracted me to work with her. And it's such a good example of someone who's doing that.
Jocelyn: Yeah, it is she is a really good example. She was kind of who I was mentioning with like Messi, but because that's her. And it's also really important to her brand and to our prospects, because the whole premise of Jordans program is done in a day. Right? So it's all about VIP days, and setting better boundaries, having more freedom, and you know, living the life you want. So that means not having to be all done and made up all the time because maybe you're on for a couple hours doing some work. And then you're off doing your your life and and what you want. So you're not getting like all dressed up to be like on all of these conference calls all day like corporate people are so ugly, there's, you can really use your visuals as a way to express yourself as an individual and to communicate an even deeper message to your prospects as well.
Sara: Jocelyn, if we were going to create our first video podcast next week, what are your top tips for us to get started?
Jocelyn: Do this is a fine line. So very first thing, obviously, is that you need to create or choose your topic, right? And you want it to be a topic that is obviously going to convert. So most of us have created content. in some form, it might be social posts or stories or something. So what I often recommend is looking back at content you've already created, and saying, okay, you know, did this social posts lead to a lot of people signing up for my lead magnet? Or did this carousel you know, get me a lot of DMS of people being like, Oh, how do I work with you? Or even Was there something I shared on a podcast episode that got a lot of people back to my website and applying to work with me, because that's, that's going to help you find that topic to start with and turn it into a video. So that'll be your easiest route. If you have that content. If you don't have that content, the number one prompt I can give you is just start by asking what is something that you do differently to get your clients or result than other people in your niche because differentiators are really going to help people understand not only what you do, but again, how you approach it, and how that's different than how somebody else might approach it so that people can again see that they're aligned with the way you think through things. So if you don't have any content yet, you haven't like really been on Instagram or LinkedIn or wherever a lot of people show up, that would be a question to ask yourself, and then create an outline. Because obviously you want to have thought through it a bit. I know there are some people who are like, I'm just gonna go live and like get it out there. So if you're that type of person, and an outline is like your worst nightmare, then you can go do that. But I think most of us are in the boat of like, let me think through what my key points are. So create an outline of you know, what are the things that I need to touch on? What are some examples that I might weave in there? What are some analogies that I might include like the two Under analogy that we've talked about on this episode to help kind of visualize some of the concepts that I'm going to talk through. So that helps to really add dimension to your piece of content. So create your outline. And then also think about two things that you might actually want to write out just to write it out. And then you don't have to read it verbatim when you're recording, but it can just help you kind of like, remember that flow, the two most important things are your hook. So what is actually said first in the video to pull people in, you don't want to start with like, Hey, guys, it's such a nice day here. Like and like do all, you know, that's pretty common and things like live videos, but when you're creating something that is going to be posted and hook people in a question is a really easy way or story is a really easy way to pull people in and have them understand that concept. So I might say something like, do you want to create your first video, but you're not sure where to start? And then we'll go into the content, right? So a question is a really easy hook to use. And then your call to action at the end? What, what is that next step that makes sense for them to take maybe based on that piece of content, it's your lead magnet or webinar, or directly working with you or sending you a DM to, you know, start a specific conversation about something. So figure out what that is. And I like to write that out a little bit just so I can remind myself, so I don't get like tongue twisted, being like, Oh, crap, I just delivered all this stuff. And like, now I forget what I'm going to, you know, say there, so that helps me. But having that outline is is really key, again, for just being able to confidently think through what you want to say and put some thought into it. Because even though it might take a little bit more time than just running with your idea and talking through it, it will make it a lot more effective, because you've done it succinctly. And you thought about the key points. And you've added in those examples that help people really grasp the concept and understand your work.
Sara: And when we've done that first video, are we putting it on YouTube is our video content belongs.
Jocelyn: I am a fan of putting it everywhere. Because Youtube, like again, even if it's not the most polished video, YouTube has SEO. So if you can find a keyword to put into that, you're going to be able to tap into SEO, maybe it's not the top ranking video, because again, somebody else did put a lot more time and effort into it. And you know, maybe you just did this in a 10 minute outline. But at least you can put something up there and start getting traction there. And then, of course distributing the on you know, whatever social channels that that you use, blast your email list, like a lot of people don't, they might publish something just on Instagram, like tell your list like that is okay you put it it doesn't matter that it's on Instagram. It's not like, oh, I can only send email blasts. If it's like a podcast episode or a YouTube video. It's like, why can't it be an Instagram video, it's good, valuable content that people need to see. So really spend the time promoting it and getting it out there in all those different ways that you can think of, I liked that
Sara: You brought that up so much. Something that I do all the time is like if I read Instagram posts that I really like, I'll just repurpose it into a newsletter. Or if I have ideas that I really like our students. Like, or like I said, I'll go into my transcripts from the podcasts like yeah, and of course, that's where you're all about repurposing the content. Yes. So a question. Let's say we right now someone has just a regular audio podcast like myself, I've noticed that people have been putting them on YouTube anyways, with just like, basically like a graphic behind it. What are your thoughts on that? Should we be doing that just to sort of getting it out there? Or should we? Or should we only just start going forward with like the video?
Jocelyn: So I've looked into that, like actually looking into the data and being like, okay, are, is this really doing anything? And you look at an example for contacts, like Amy Porterfield huge, top chart podcast, right? If anybody should have results from YouTube, it should be Amy because she does have this like super well known, well produced podcast that has hundreds of 1000s of listeners. And it's not even taking off on her channel. Yes, she gets like a couple 100 views, but in the context of how many views or listens she gets on the podcast, it's like nothing. And I think that is because people inherently want to experience video when they are going to YouTube. They're going for that experience. And there are video podcasts that I watch on YouTube. And it's nothing fancy. It's literally like two people sitting on a couch or across the table. But that is just like so much more engaging, when I actually want to like sit down and watch something. So although you can absolutely put it on YouTube, and that's probably better than not even trying. You're gonna get a lot more by just having that video there. And I've noticed the same pattern with people doing not on reels and tic toc as well, when I go in, and I look at the data of people who are doing like audio grams, which is for people who don't know what that is, you know, it might have maybe the subtitles and like a little wave, but it's a static, graphic and audio only, that does not perform nearly as well as people with comparable sized podcasts that have the video version, again, even if that video version was just recorded on Zoom. And it's not nothing fancy. But that video just gives the people what they want to watch. Because, again, when you're sitting down, and you're opening the reels tab, that's what you want to see. So there's a lot more opportunity to get more results doesn't mean you can't get any results by doing audio grams, or just posting the audio version to YouTube. But you're gonna get a lot more when you do add that video because of what these platforms inherently want. And what the people engaging with those platforms want
Sara: That so helpful. One more like logistical question, Jocelyn, shorter versus longer doesn't matter.
Jocelyn: I am in the camp of it doesn't matter. I look at again, when I'm creating content, I think about okay, here's my topic, what do I need to communicate? That might be 10 minutes, because it's a concept that's like super narrow and very specific, or a concept that I just want to start introducing people to, but don't want to overwhelm them the first time they hear it, that so that might be 10 minutes, but there might be something else, that's 40 minutes or 60 minutes. And I want to give myself that space to actually communicate what needs to be communicated without constraints. And then again, I can always take that longer piece that's 10 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever it is, and then break it down into that smaller content. So that makes it all easier because you can kind of what's the polite way to say it feed two birds with one stone? That's a polite way.
Sara: I didn't let us go. And so really, it's it's our content is dictating what we do.
Jocelyn: Yeah, I always just lead with like, what actually needs to be communicated first, rather than, like, how can I communicate this in 60 seconds? Or, you know, two minutes or something like that?
Sara: Sounds like it's like, at the top of this puppet podcast, we talked about how there's all people ask the question, like, where are all the places that should go? When really, it's about the content? And it's kind of like, same thing it was like, as opposed to how long it is? It's like what needs to be said to her. So coming back to that core, what are you talking about first, like, let's start there. And then just get the decision sort of flow from that. Yeah, that sums it up perfectly. So Justin, if our listeners were walk away with only one thing for this episode, what do you hope it will be?
Jocelyn: Yeah, I mean, I think you just touched on it a bit. But it's really about starting with what would make this piece of content really effective? What would make this piece of content really high quality for my audience? What would make this content really different? Somebody else who talked about this topic, how can I, you know, bring that new perspective. Because when you start there, and you start with those timeless principles, and you start with, you know, making sure that what you're saying in your content is what your audience needs to understand about the topic, that's going to be such a more effective and more profitable piece of content for you, then leading with all of those other tactics of what hashtag is trending or what sound is trending or any of those 110 different things that are getting thrown at us right now. But really come back to what is going to be the most effective piece of content I can create for my community this week.
Sara: Jocelyn, where can our listeners find out more about working with you and learn about video content from you?
Jocelyn: Yeah, thank you so much for offering that you can visit connect through content.com. That's where you'll be able to subscribe to my emails and also apply for my video podcast strategy VIP day. And then I'm also most actively on Instagram and my handle is at connect through content.
Sara: Amazing will of course, put all those links in the show notes. Definitely go connect with Jocelyn. I hope Jocelyn It's okay. Like if I say slide into the DMS and bring questions or tell her what you liked about this episode and what you walked away with for sure. And look at her VIP day because it is fantastic looking. Jocelyn, thank you so much for joining us today on
the launch playbook podcast.
Jocelyn: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Sara.
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